"hillrat" (hillrat)
10/20/2020 at 08:20 • Filed to: ThatRona
1
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"hillrat" (hillrat)
10/20/2020 at 08:20 • Filed to: ThatRona | 1
| 79 |
Oh FFS! This is never going to end if people can’t figure out basic shit like this . . .
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
Spanfeller is a twat
> hillrat
10/20/2020 at 08:26 |
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Lots of people seem to not want to use masks on planes, and food is still served anyway
Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
> hillrat
10/20/2020 at 08:32 |
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I would like to let you know Who WAS and IS doing this.
Probably the same people whose idea if mask wearing is letting their nose peek out above the covering.
Sovande
> hillrat
10/20/2020 at 08:40 |
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I live in Alexandria, a liberal haven full of the best and brightest. I take about a 2 mile walk every afternoon as a rehab for my knee and yesterday, a beautiful sunny day , I was one of about 8 people I saw wearing a mask out of the 60 or so I saw on my travels. These same people are at the park with no mask while their children all play together, hand-in-hand. Christmas is going to be a pretty grim affair if people don’t realize how bad this could get. And it’s everyone, smart, dumb, large group, small group, friends, family. Everyone is a fucking idiot.
My son is 10 years old and we are waiting for the results of his Covid test as we hope his mom doesn’t start showing symptoms. My girlfriend is in the Navy and is running a flu clinic at the Pentagon and Fort Belvoir. She was exposed to two coworkers who’s spouses have tested positive. All because people can’t be fucking bothered. And we have a President and a Congress who couldn’t lead if the lives of the entire nation depended upon it.
MonkeePuzzle
> Spanfeller is a twat
10/20/2020 at 08:43 |
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wat!? I thought drinks/food services were cancelled for now.
well of COURSE people will remove their mask to consume crap they dont need to consume. (extremely long flights excluded, yes you need to consume something on long flights, but most flights are far shorter than would REQUIRE sustenance)
dumpsterfire!
> hillrat
10/20/2020 at 08:48 |
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SMH. E ven before COVID, i wanted to wear a N95 on plane rides. M aybe some people think the air recirculation system makes everything better, but I almost inevitably picked up a minor respiratory bug after flying.
Just Jeepin'
> Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
10/20/2020 at 08:56 |
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I’ve seen so many people fiercely protecting their chins...
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Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
> Just Jeepin'
10/20/2020 at 08:57 |
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Yeah must be Rona is spread through chin sweat or else food workers and nurses wouldn't do that so often.
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Spanfeller is a twat
> MonkeePuzzle
10/20/2020 at 09:04 |
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Actually, I’ve been on... five flights since the beginning of the month, all of them had food service. Airports are also serving food again, I even saw some airport employees without masks in Schipol. They do have a moderately useful contact tracing scheme.
ranwhenparked
> MonkeePuzzle
10/20/2020 at 09:06 |
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Probably the same people who come to the emergency room at 10:00 at night with some minor ailment that could be handled at home with Tylenol and a Band Aid , have to wait 12 minutes to be seen, and start whining about how they haven’t eaten since dinner 3 hours earlier , as if that’s everyone else’s problem.
Seriously, as crazy as it sounds, some people eat to purely to occupy themselves, and if they're not eating something every hour on the hour, they don't know what to do with the time.
ttyymmnn
> dumpsterfire!
10/20/2020 at 09:13 |
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Coronavirus study finds air on planes is safer than homes or operating rooms
This may be true, but it doesn’t resolve the problems travelers face with the large groups of people in the termina l, going through security, and queuing at the gate. That might be a bit better now that so many airports have become ghost towns, but the plane itself may be the safest place outside of your home.
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MonkeePuzzle
> Spanfeller is a twat
10/20/2020 at 09:21 |
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just ugh!
I’ve avoided travel since the start, but at some point I do have some travel required, and it will be on a plane. And it’d sure be nice if we could all just agree to some real basics.
can we seriously not go without some bad pretzels and a soda for 3 hours?
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ttyymmnn
> hillrat
10/20/2020 at 09:21 |
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We walked through an upscale shopping/dining/condo development over the weekend. The restaurants were hopping, the sidewalks were crowded, and very few people under the age of 35 were wearing masks. Masks are still required in all other businesses. People just don’t GAF. What they can’t get through their thick self-centered skulls is we can do pretty much everything we normally did, and do it in relative safety, if we wear a mask.
Disclaimer: I now have a sore throat and I have no idea how I managed to catch it since I’ve been wearing a mask everywhere, using hand sanitizer, and washing my hands. My son just got over a similar sore throat, so I’m blaming him
DipodomysDeserti
> Sovande
10/20/2020 at 09:27 |
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You wear a mask while walking outside? Assuming your street doesn’t look like Times Square, that isn’t doing much, if anything. CDC is still saying it travels on water droplets. If it is aerosolized, only an N95 is going to do much anyways.
I saw a kid at the park last weekend riding his bike with a mask, but no helmet. Thought that was pretty funny. I’d rather have covid than a TBI.
Wearing a mask is a precaution , not a cure. People are still going to get infected.
Also, a whole lot more people are wearing masks now than they were last winter/spring (nearly no one), so I don’t see why people think it’s going to be any worse than it was then (2019-20 was also a very bad flu season), other than the fact that they keep reading fear mongering news written without any research beyond the reporter watching cable news.
As an adult, if you need politicians to lead you, your a fucking moron (not directing this at you, just in general).
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Spanfeller is a twat
> MonkeePuzzle
10/20/2020 at 09:31 |
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I’ll be honest, every plane was mostly empty I don’t think it’s
riskier
than an indoors restaurant
for the passengers
... but certainly a
very cavalier attitude to covid 19 considering europe (Spain in particular
for my case) is not doing well with controlling the thing. I’m mostly worried about the crews. Because they still parade the plane while many passengers don’t have their masks on, and of course they handle all of the waste too.
Some things also don’t make sense, like the boarding
logic. You’d think it’d make more sense to board the plane from the back-forwards to avoid trails and such, but first class still boards first, and so do people with accessibility
issues so... those groups get more exposure than the first row of economy. But they also expose more people as well.
Maybe they gave up. Because I can totally see all of the worry for pandemic prevention, but now that it’s already raging... they think it’s too much.
I wouldn’t know.
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hillrat
> dumpsterfire!
10/20/2020 at 09:31 |
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RIGHT?!?!?! You’re flying through the air in an aluminum tube filled with recycled farts, it was never that great to begin with.
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hillrat
> ttyymmnn
10/20/2020 at 09:36 |
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Yeah, but
The study was conducted by a team that included members from United Airlines, Boeing.....
Also this from last month
All I’m saying is that it’s gonna be a looooooooooong time before I get on public transportation again.
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ttyymmnn
> hillrat
10/20/2020 at 09:39 |
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Yes, that is a major caveat in that study. There might also be some issues with their methodology. I’m not a scientist, but it seems the only way to truly test their theory would be to fill a plane with people, place two or three co vid-positive people, and see what happens. No real life situation will ever be as structured as a lab test. Still, people have been saying from the start that airplanes should be safer, and this study may support that hypothesis, if not outright prove it.
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Sovande
> DipodomysDeserti
10/20/2020 at 09:44 |
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We have a mask mandate in my city which requires that you wear a mask while in the proximity of others, inside or outside . On a sidewalk walking with others is what I would deem to be proximity. I understand how a mask works, and the purpose for said mask, but thanks for the reminder, it was helpful and not patronizing at all.
I appreciate you calling me a moron, it’s a perfect example of what is happening. I do something with zero negative impact on anyone else, I wear a mask, and the response from people who don’t think the efficacy is worth the hassle, is that I’m a fucking moron. Being part of the precaution, as you referred to mask wearing, would seem to be a better side to be on than the group who says “it’s not a big deal, we’re all going to get it anyway.” But time will tell.
I recognize that you put in the parenthetical there at the end, but we know who you were talking about.
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DipodomysDeserti
> Sovande
10/20/2020 at 10:08 |
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I don’t do the whole passive aggressive thing. If I wanted to call you a fucking idiot, I would have. I couldn’t care less if people want to wear masks. I was just pointing out that this virus will spread whether or not people wear masks at the park.
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DipodomysDeserti
> hillrat
10/20/2020 at 10:12 |
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Do you also discount drug and vaccine studies? They’re largely conducted by the manufacturers.
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DipodomysDeserti
> ttyymmnn
10/20/2020 at 10:23 |
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Sweden is still telling people not to wear masks. Their line of thought is that the masks are minimally effective, and give people a false sense of security. They then put themselves in riskier situations, like going to crowded places, where the risk of transmission is higher.
You’ve got the best of both worlds, where people are going to crowded places without even wearing masks. Double whammy. Wearing a mask in a super crowded place is like wearing a bicycle helmet on a motorcycle. It helps a bit, but probably not much.
Long_Voyager94
> DipodomysDeserti
10/20/2020 at 10:23 |
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The CDC has updated their guidance after discovering the main transmission is aerosol, not droplets as originally thought.
The CDC has also noted over 75% of those infected were those wearing masks.
This update makes sense given our cases still climbing despite mass mask mandates and more people than ever wearing masks.
People still try to blame non maskers, but fail to realize their mask isn’t going to stop an airborne virus, and given people’s general mask etiquette, are likely making them more likely to get infected.
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Sovande
> DipodomysDeserti
10/20/2020 at 10:24 |
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T his entire response is passive-aggressive:
You wear a mask while walking outside? Assuming your street doesn’t look like Times Square, that isn’t doing much, if anything. CDC is still saying it travels on water droplets. If it is aerosolized, only an N95 is going to do much anyways.
I saw a kid at the park last weekend riding his bike with a mask, but no helmet. Thought that was pretty funny. I’d rather have covid than a TBI.
Wearing a mask is a precaution, not a cure. People are still going to get infected.
Also, a whole lot more people are wearing masks now than they were last winter/spring (nearly no one), so I don’t see why people think it’s going to be any worse than it was then (2019-20 was also a very bad flu season), other than the fact that they keep reading fear mongering news written without any research beyond the reporter watching cable news.
As an adult, if you need politicians to lead you, your a fucking moron (not directing this at you, just in general).
Milky
> DipodomysDeserti
10/20/2020 at 10:30 |
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Also, a whole lot more people are wearing masks now than they were last winter/spring (nearly no one), so I don’t see why people think it’s going to be any worse than it was then
Depends where you are. MI has had a mask mandate since the beginning because Detroit got hit hard. B ut o ur rates have been going up lately because people are getting tired of covid. Or to use your words, they’re being a “ fucking moron”.
Its not fear mongering, its numbers.
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DipodomysDeserti
> Sovande
10/20/2020 at 10:35 |
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Oy vey...
Where I come from, that’s not considered aggressive at all. As you pointed out, you’re surrounded by fucking idiots everywhere you go, so your aggressive gauge might be a bi t off.
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ttyymmnn
> DipodomysDeserti
10/20/2020 at 10:36 |
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https://time.com/5899432/sweden-coronovirus-disaster/
facw
> Long_Voyager94
10/20/2020 at 10:49 |
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The CDC has updated their guidance after discovering the main transmission is aerosol, not droplets as originally thought
Umm, no...
They said say it sometimes spreads through airborne transmission. They certainly don’t claim it is the main source of transmission.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html
The 75% statistic is also somewhat bogus. First, it was 70.6% of infected saying they always wore mask (which is still high). Second, these are self-reported assertions of mask wearing, so we have no idea how accurate they are, or whether masks were worn properly (any trip to the grocery store shows me plenty of older people happily wearing masks that don’t cover their nose). Third, they don’t cover activities where a mask can’t be worn. If you “always” wear a mask but take it off while eating/drinking in crowded restaurants and bars of course it’s not going to help. Fourth, people who always wore masks were less likely to get the virus than those who wore masks less frequently. Fifth, we know that new cases in Arizona dropped dramatically after a mask mandate was issued (and other studies report similar outcomes elsewhere) . Finally, we have known from the start that cloth masks provide only relatively minor protection to the person wearing them (higher grade masks can do much more). However we’ve seen the wearing a mask makes an infected person considerably less likely to spread the cornavirus. This one reason why the initial guidance only recommended that sick people wear masks. Unfortunately, since we now know asymptomatic transmission is a thing, everyone needs to wear a mask to help protect everyone else.
Note also that the CDC still recommends mask wearing (see the link above).
Frankly it is dangerous for you to spread this misinformation. If you want to argue from findings from the CDC, the WHO or other respected organizations, fine, but that’s not what you are doing. This is some garbage Facebook post shit, and if people believe it, it will do its tiny part to make things worse.
HammerheadFistpunch
> DipodomysDeserti
10/20/2020 at 11:02 |
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so I don’t see why people think it’s going to be any worse than it was then (2019-20 was also a very bad flu season)
The data? Yes I’m going to go with “the data”. It’s pretty clear covid is more of a transmission problem compared to the flu. For one very few have any defense for immunity. And it’s also deadlier and more transmittable.
I get a daily brief on the data and talk to epidemiologists about once a week... It’s not fear mongering
I will agree that wearing them outdoors with plenty of spacing doesn't make any sense except to reduce droplets you leave on things you touch.
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Long_Voyager94
> facw
10/20/2020 at 11:10 |
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Oh look, more CDC saying something, then changing their wording shortly after.
Find me one piece of proven data showing masks work, I’d say I’d wait, but we’ll both be dead long before you find it. One study says one thing, another study says the opposite, so which one is truth?
Here in WI our cases were dropping steadily for weeks BEFORE the mask mandate. Couple weeks AFTER, cases start skyrocketing. Now with more people than ever wearing masks, we are an Epicenter of the US. Even if only 50% were wearing them ( which is more like 75-80% from what I’ve seen ) we should be seeing a decrease in cases, yet here we are.
Honest question for you, if masks stop this virus, how do we have a pandemic to begin with given Wuhan has had mask mandates since 2007?
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DipodomysDeserti
> ttyymmnn
10/20/2020 at 11:18 |
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Per the article you linked:
Sweden has a lower death rate than the US, Spain, Italy, the UK, and Belgium, all countries that had stricter lockdowns and mask mandates. It’ll probably be lower than Framce by the end of October. Also, ask our local Dutch-English metal worker, The Netherlands has had extremely lax precautions and they have a very low death rate.
The article also
mentions that most of Sweden’s deaths were in old folks homes (just like here). People in homes are already quarantined. They’re usually staffed by D average nursing grads or CNA
high schoolers, so no surprise they failed to keep their patients
safe.
There’s a lot of bullshit going around.
fintail
> DipodomysDeserti
10/20/2020 at 11:19 |
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“if not by much” spares your mom or grandma from an early grave, isn’t it worth it?
Sweden has handled this almost as poorly as the shithole areas of the US. They actually have a safety net though, so they can afford experiments, not so much in the land of the free or whatever they call it.
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fintail
> Sovande
10/20/2020 at 11:20 |
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LOL he’s one of the most passive-aggressive people here, and apparently now has a background in epidemiology, too. Waiting for him to drop “plandemic” or something else echoed by brave “independent” voices in this decaying society.
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fintail
> Sovande
10/20/2020 at 11:23 |
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Yup, it’s the national mindset as a whole, encouraged by its shitty leadership, not just regional politics. Everyone is a fucking idiot, I think people are finally now simply tired of restrictions and saying “fuck it”, as they think nothing will happen to them or their kin. Although some states are faring better than others, and I’d trust data from some (southern) areas about as much as I would from China or Russia.
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Sovande
> DipodomysDeserti
10/20/2020 at 11:25 |
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You come from one of those tough places where the meanings of words and phrases don’t mean what they do everywhere else. It sounds charming.
My point in all of this was that the resistance to wearing a mask in public is, from what I have seen, a problem across the aisle. It matters little one’s politics because everyone is smarter than the scientists asking that we wear masks in public with the intent of cutting down transmission. Why anyone would be against that particular goal is not something I can comprehend.
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DipodomysDeserti
> HammerheadFistpunch
10/20/2020 at 11:55 |
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I was not inferring that covid is less transmissible or deadly than the flu (although without vaccines the flu would probably be up there). We had both influenza and covid circulating last flu season, which was already a bad one even before covid showed up. We also possibly extended flu season by keeping everyone inside.
However, now we have nine months of experience and knowledge , plus more universal precautions being taken. Shit, a good portion of the people that died at the beginning of this were probably from blood clots because they were laid flat while on a respirator (my dad’s neighbor’s brother died that way) . Remember when respirators were a hot button political issue?
H opefully they predicted the correct flu strain this year. We’ll know our time has come if they get that wrong, and H1N1 makes a resurgence.
The big headline articles screaming “ITS ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE”, containing no data, or interpretation of data, and just an interview with some rando on cable news, is fear mongering.
Although maybe it is needed, since the majority of our population would fail a high school level biology midterm, and need to be told to wash their hands.
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Long_Voyager94
> Sovande
10/20/2020 at 12:01 |
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It stems from them recommending masks with zero proven data they work. We’re basing our whole life off some unproven studies and theories.
Some realize that if masks could actually stop this virus there would be no pandemic to speak of given Wuhan has had long standing mask mandates, yet the virus still broke out of Wuhan.
Another point of contention, why can masks suddenly stop a virus now when they haven’t been able to f or decades?
Don’t get me wrong, I wear a mask when required, but I’m very against doing things that have no basis in fact.
I can’t comprehend
trying to blame another person for a virus or thinking that we can control a quickly mutating virus.
I mean Jesus, the Spanish Flu’s mutations still kill over 600k people every year despite vaccines and treatments.
It’s a virus, you can’t control it, you can’t stop it, there is no one to blame, why people continue to want to separate and point fingers while claiming to “care” just blows my mind.
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DipodomysDeserti
> Sovande
10/20/2020 at 12:03 |
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You come from one of those tough places where the meanings of words and phrases don’t mean what they do everywhere else. It sounds charming.
Hey
, you’re the one who said I called you a fucking moron, when I literally wrote that I was not directing my comment at you. Sounds like that might be more you’re reality than mine.
I know how disease transmission works, and so the elderly people in my life are still being encouraged to stay home, because I’m not going to rely on others to protect them. However, if my eighty four year-old grandma decides it isn’t worth it, that’s her prerogative. Her dad lived a hundred and two years, so she’s still being cautious.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> DipodomysDeserti
10/20/2020 at 12:04 |
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I think your last point is key - people dumb and need to be beat over the head with it until they form new habits .
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Sovande
> Long_Voyager94
10/20/2020 at 12:14 |
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You ridicule the CDC for changing their wording when it does not benefit the narrative you wish to be true, yet site them as the source when the stats back up the argument you want to be true. Pick a side. They are either full o f shit or you are, which is it? Is the guy who paints vans in his garage a better source for information on mask wearing, or is the Centers for Disease Control, which was a respected organization until the current president questioned the science.
Masks are not a panacea. They will not cut the spread 100%. They will lessen trans missions per science and common sense. Pretending otherwise is frightening.
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Sovande
> Long_Voyager94
10/20/2020 at 12:19 |
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If the transmission of the sickness is through droplets passed from one person to another, are you saying that a mask doesn’t stop those droplets?
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Sovande
> DipodomysDeserti
10/20/2020 at 12:20 |
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And I was the one who called that out as the bullshit it was. What’s your point?
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Long_Voyager94
> Sovande
10/20/2020 at 12:21 |
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So show me the proven data masks work. I’ll wait.
I ridicule because the “experts” can do a study one day and come up with one result, then 2 days later completely revert their findings. Then there’s FB fact checkers claiming false info on CDC/WHO articles because their “experts” came to a different conclusion ( wait you mean you can completely redo a worldwide study in a few hours? ).
There is no proven science masks work and common sense tells us if masks could stop viruses we would have been masking up every flu season to save over 600k people a year.
The only frightening thing here is people blindly pointing blame at others with no proven data either side is right. For people who claim to “care” so much about others, they are mighty quick at condemning them for disagreeing with their beliefs.
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DipodomysDeserti
> fintail
10/20/2020 at 12:23 |
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Sweden has handled this almost as poorly as the shithole areas of the US. They actually have a safety net though, so they can afford experiments, not so much in the land of the free or whatever they call it.
Is New York City considered one of the shitholes of the US now? President Trump, is that you?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1103688/coronavirus-covid19-deaths-us-by-state/
Sweden
has a lower death rate than the UK, Spain, Italy and Belgium (who has a stupid high death rate, probably because of screwy recording).
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/
Western European countries have also been having much worse health outcomes in their hospitals, despite whatever social safety nets might be in place. This could possibly be because they got hit with a strain that was less infectious, but more deadly (which also explains our higher infection rate, but lower mortality rate; that or our healthcare system is better than it seems)
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
No way would I rely on the American public to keep the vulnerable members of my family alive
in any situation
. Masks help in crowded situations, but avoiding
those situations is much more effective. My family is a community, we take care of each other and don’t rely on someone else to do it for us. My grandma is
being encouraged to stay home and let us know if she
needs
anything. Relying on someone else to keep your loved ones safe, especially your elders,
seems shameful to me. However, if she decides it isn’t worth it, that’s her prerogative. Her dad lived into his 100s (despite growing up
in shithole southern
Italy without any hea
lthcare system at all
)
, so she knows she still has a lot of time left.
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facw
> Long_Voyager94
10/20/2020 at 12:29 |
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The CDC has never said what you claim. If you thought they did, it is because you misunderstood something. They did update the above document to say basically what is says now, reverted it saying a draft had been inadvertently published, and then later restored essentially the same content later after it had been completed. Sloppy but not anything that indicates it is not the best thinking.
It’s also profoundly weird for you to start your argument by (falsely) claiming that CDC data supports your point, and then immediately switch to saying you cant trust the CDC.
A small sampling of research and other reports on mask effectiveness. Y ou could have found any of these yourself (and frankly a lot more) if you weren’t so concerned you’d never find it. Do you really think public health policy experts are just pulling stuff out of their asses? :
New IHME Forecasts Show More Than 200,000 US Deaths by November 1
Face Masks, Public Policies and Slowing the Spread of COVID-19: Evidence from Canada
Coronavirus cases down 31% in first month since mask mandate
Potential utilities of mask-wearing and instant hand hygiene for fighting SARS-CoV-2
Aerosol Filtration Efficiency of Common Fabrics Used in Respiratory Cloth Masks
Alabama Coronavirus Cases Fall After State Issues Mask Mandate
Kansas counties with mask mandate show steep COVID-19 drop
Two Weeks After Mississippi Gov. Lifts Mask Mandate, State Reports Over 1,000 COVID Cases Again
Oklahoma’s mask mandates are working. Here’s the proof
Low-cost measurement of face mask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets during speech
COVID-19: How Effective Are Masks At Protecting Others?
Epidemiology of and Risk Factors for Coronavirus Infection in Health Care Workers
Factors Associated with Cloth Face Covering Use Among Adults During the COVID-19 Pandemic
Face coverings for the public: Laying straw men to rest
Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks
Effectiveness of Cloth Masks for Protection Against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2
Face Masks Considerably Reduce COVID-19 Cases in Germany: A Synthetic Control Method Approach
Now these studies may not be perfect (for example when we see reductions after a mask mandate, there are also usually other accompanying regulation changes, and of course if people see COVID spreading more in their community, they are likely to be more cautious on their own). Still, there is a lot of evidence that masks do something and basically none that they are not helpful. Are they helpful enough to justify the burden? The burden is extremely low, so it seems like the answer is yes, though that is something that can be argued about . Also note that several of those studies are talking about the effectiveness of masks against aerosols so even if airborne transmission were the overwhelming vector, surgical masks and higher grade respirators would still be helpful (cloth masks would be more suspect in that scenario), but again, current research says airborne spread is still a minor contribution.
I can’t say much on what’s going on in Wisconsin. I’ve read that mask mandates aren’t being especially followed or enforced in a lot of cases. The courts also blocked some of your distancing guidelines, which no doubt makes you more of a hotspot. Ultimately though, national news doesn’t give me enough info to speak with any authority as to why you are surging.
As for the situation in China, first it’s entirely false to claim Wuhan had mask mandates since 2007. Wuhan had no mask mandate when things started spreading. No mandate was imposed until January 22nd. At that point there were almost certainly a huge number of infections. And the most significant spread in Wuhan was happening within the home, where masks weren’t worn or required. Additionally, you’ll note that unlike the US, China quickly got it s infections under control, and even when the coronavirus reached other cities, it did not gain much of a foothold. Indeed in the East Asian countries where mask wearing to prevent disease is an accepted norm, the virus has had a much more difficult time gaining ground than it has in Western countries.
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Sovande
> Long_Voyager94
10/20/2020 at 12:33 |
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If you don’t like the experts because they are all wrong, why would you quote those same experts and use that data as the crux of your argument? Are the experts only right when it fits your narrative?
I am without comment on your disbelief that a mask would not help to stop transmissions. It’s a simple barrier that stops the drops from the leaving the mouth and becoming airborne .
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DipodomysDeserti
> Sovande
10/20/2020 at 12:33 |
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Exactly. You should probably stop here and move on with your day. You’re surrounded by people you think are fucking morons, better focus on them.
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Long_Voyager94
> Milky
10/20/2020 at 12:37 |
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Wisconsin:
Even if only 50% was wearing masks ( 75-80% is a more accurate number ) our cases should be going down instead of skyrocketing if masks work.
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hillrat
> DipodomysDeserti
10/20/2020 at 12:37 |
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No, t hey’re held to a different, higher, and more scientific (double blind studies and the like) standard than whatever research Boeing is doing.
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Long_Voyager94
> Sovande
10/20/2020 at 12:40 |
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Ah, you missed the CDC update that it’s airborne I see, tell me how a mask that filters .300 microns is going to keep out a <.125 micron virus? Or does that part of the CDC’s “science” not count?
And as I said, show me the proven data masks work, I’m still waiting, because this is where everyone clamoring masks argument falls apart. There is no proof masks work, just a study that says yes, another that says no that gets debunked, another that says yes, another that says masks can make things worse , on and on and on.
I’m sick of people pointing fingers at others with no proof while they try to sit high and mighty claiming they do it because they care about others. Most of them are just self righteous a-holes looking for someone to degrade for not agreeing with their point of view.
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Sovande
> DipodomysDeserti
10/20/2020 at 12:40 |
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I’m focused on this fucking moron
, currently. You have my full attention.
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Milky
> Long_Voyager94
10/20/2020 at 12:43 |
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I feel like I need an “oh, you” meme for Wisconsin. Correlation =/= causation mate. You cant wear a mask outside then go crowd a bar. My family in the Janesville constantly say everyone is being idiotic over there.
Good luck to ya if you think masks make it worse.
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hillrat
> ttyymmnn
10/20/2020 at 12:44 |
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It’s certainly possible that it’s safe and I can still be skeptical that the princes of crony capitalism (Boeing) and gov’t bailouts (United) funded a bullshit study to get quarterly earnings up so 3 dozen asshole execs can hit their bonus number.
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Sovande
> Long_Voyager94
10/20/2020 at 12:44 |
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If the transmission of the sickness is through droplets passed from one person to another, are you saying that a mask doesn’t stop those droplets?
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Long_Voyager94
> Sovande
10/20/2020 at 12:50 |
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Are the experts only right when it fits your narrative?
Um, you mean exactly what maskers are doing?
It’s a simple barrier that stops the drops from the leaving the mouth and becoming airborne.
It is airborne, aka no drops to stop, not a hard concept.
As I said, you are judging others and pointing blame with no proven data to support it. I’m sorry, but putting a mask on your face doesn’t somehow make one a better person, especially when they knowingly condemn and attack those who disagree.
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Long_Voyager94
> facw
10/20/2020 at 12:51 |
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So unproven studies it is then, thanks. Not a single one of those has any PROVEN DATA, it’s all mights/maybes/coulds.
This is our timeline in WI currently, mind you more people than ever ARE wearing masks and have been for some time:
And to your comment about E ast Asian countries, many are experiencing the same rise in cases as the US currently despite what the media leads you to believe.
And the most significant spread in Wuhan was happening within the home, where masks weren’t worn or required.
So how did people get it to spread it in the home if they are wearing masks?
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Long_Voyager94
> Milky
10/20/2020 at 12:54 |
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Everywhere we’ve been in the last 2-3 months ( which is pretty much all over the state ) 80% plus are wearing masks, even those going into bars/restaurants.
As I said to others, it must be nice to claim “caring” as you look down on those who’s views don’t agree.
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Long_Voyager94
> Sovande
10/20/2020 at 12:56 |
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If the transmission of the sickness is through droplets passed from one person to another, are you saying that a mask doesn’t stop those droplets?
That narrative falls apart when the virus is AIRBORNE ( AKA no droplets to stop ).
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Sovande
> Long_Voyager94
10/20/2020 at 13:01 |
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I don’t think it’s airborne in the way in which you think it is. It’s not just existing in the air, it’s expelled from a source and becomes airborne. One way to slow the transmission of these airborne particles is to wear a mask.
The CDC has this all on their website. It’s right here:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/scientific-brief-sars-cov-2.html
This last paragraph may be of interest (bolding is mine) :
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
Existing interventions to prevent the spread of SARS-CoV-2 appear sufficient to address transmission both through close contact and under the special circumstances favorable to potential airborne transmission. Among these interventions, which include social distancing, use of masks in the community, hand hygiene, and surface cleaning and disinfection, ventilation and avoidance of crowded indoor spaces are especially relevant for enclosed spaces, where circumstances can increase the concentration of suspended small droplets and particles carrying infectious virus. At this time, there is no indication of a general community need to use special engineering controls, such as those required to protect against airborne transmission of infections, like measles or tuberculosis, in the healthcare setting.
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Sovande
> Long_Voyager94
10/20/2020 at 13:05 |
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That’s not what airborne means. It just means smaller droplets which stay in the air for an extended period of time - from what I have said I think that is 3 hours for Covid.
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
Airborne can be used to describe any size particle (e.g., droplet, dust, pollen) capable of travel through the air. For respiratory droplets, that can include droplets that are close to the source and those that have moved farther away. However, most infectious disease and public health experts reserve the term airborne specifically for use in the context of airborne transmission to describe infections capable of being transmitted through exposure to infectious, pathogen-containing, small droplets and particles suspended in the air over long distances and that persist in the air for long times.
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DipodomysDeserti
> Sovande
10/20/2020 at 13:10 |
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Oh geez, Mr. Tough Guy is here, watch out!
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facw
> Long_Voyager94
10/20/2020 at 13:13 |
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Fun fact, it is impossible to prove anything in a scientific paper. You can disprove things but they can at best support a hypothesis. Even for lesser levels of confirmation, it’s not like you can ethically set up nice controlled double-blind experiments because intentionally exposing people to a deadly virus would be horrific.
Moreover, you seem peculiarly willing to believe that masks don’t work based on basically no scientific evidence, but demand impossible levels of proof for effectiveness. This is bad logic.
As for Wuhan, the virus spread widely before the mandate and lockdown. You have to remember that in January it will still largely unknown how big a deal it was, testing was still in its infancy, and we didn’t know that asymptomatic transmission was a thing.
Also:
many are experiencing the same rise in cases as the US currently despite what the media leads you to believe.
is total bullshit:
Japan:
China:
South Korea:
Taiwan:
Also note how tiny these numbers are compared to us (except for China these countries are smaller than us, but not anywhere near enough to explain the discrepancy)
US:
In any event, I’m not going to engage with you anymore on this. You’ve clearly decided what you want to believe. Your attack on the “media” above shows this. And why would the media want to hide the truth? And if the media is hiding the truth, why does what they report match the research, the recommendations of major health agencies, and world-wide case and death reporting?
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DipodomysDeserti
> hillrat
10/20/2020 at 13:16 |
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Research standards apply no matter what you’re studying, and they don’t prevent a researcher from fudging data. Putting more eyes on the research will help suss out bullshit, though. Things being injected into humans do require more research before being given approval (one study ain’t gonna cut it) . However, many of those requirements are being lifted for covid drugs and vaccines.
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Milky
> Long_Voyager94
10/20/2020 at 13:18 |
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Lot to unpack there.
“Caring” is certainly better than not giving a fuck, even if you dont think it comes from a good place. FWIW basically no one from what I’ve seen is going “ into bars/restaurants” here in Detroit. Takeout is a great thing during a pandemic.
I’ll double down on my good luck to ya, esp. since you dont think masks work and are going pretty much all over the state.
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Long_Voyager94
> Milky
10/20/2020 at 14:01 |
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I’m sorry but putting a mask on doesn’t sudden make someone a caring individual, nor does not wearing one mean that person doesn’t care.
Assuming so is just wrong.
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Long_Voyager94
> Sovande
10/20/2020 at 14:04 |
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Keep telling yourself that.
Fact is, this is a virus, it’s here to stay.
You either have had it, have it, or will have it. There’s no hiding, there’s no running.
You either live your life normal like most essential workers have been all along, or you try to hide.
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Sovande
> Long_Voyager94
10/20/2020 at 14:17 |
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Well, actually, the Mayo Clinic told me that stuff about the definition of an airborne virus. Then I copied it and pasted it here for you to read. So it’s not me telling me anything, it’s me reading a paper published by one of the most respected academic medical centers on the planet and then sharing a portion of it to try to help you understand.
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DipodomysDeserti
> fintail
10/20/2020 at 14:40 |
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I’m by no means an epidemiologist, but I do have some background in epidemiology and health sciences. I usually defer to my sister, who has been working covid units and will have her DNP by the end of the year.
I v
olunteered in my first epidemiology lab in high school. I’ve attained health science degrees and some certs since then, thought about
medical school
or getting my BSN a few times (just need the practicals for the BSN
), but every time I go back into a hospital or clinic I’m reminded of how broken our healthcare system is, and want no part of it. I have MD friends who have stopped practicing in order to sell medical equipment which is a good indication of where we’re at.
In a graduate program now studying environmental contamination and remediation. If we can’t heal people properly, at least I can help keep them from getting preventable illnesses (although our environmental protections are also pretty fucked up, especially over the last few years ). One of my professors used to be a health director for the county, and helped handle our WNV epidemic, and helps give some really good insight into public health from a policy perspective.
Only plandemic I see is rampant obesity, heart disease and diabetes. Totally preventable for most people, and an integral part of our society and economy. One of my areas of focus is uranium remediation on tribal lands, and I do feel that food and resource extraction has been weaponized against indigenous peoples (not just here, but in all of the Americas).
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fintail
> DipodomysDeserti
10/20/2020 at 15:57 |
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Let’s link those stats to population density and on a per-capita basis. The states with the most population and largest cities have the most issues? Color me amazed. And on a similar note, I’d trust data from FL and surrounding areas as much as I’d trust it from the PRC itself.
Sweden also has significantly worse results than massively larger and more densely populated Germany, the rest of Scandinavia, and others. Why is that? They haven’t been without economic pain, either. Of course, if one had to be in crisis in Sweden or the US, I know what I’d pick.
You might be on to something with the differences in strains - I find it hard to believe re: the (enormously expensive and profit-driven) US healthcare system, which also produces inferior life expectancy and quality of life indices compared to other developed nations.
I agree about keeping away from crowds, but not everyone is lucky enough to be able to shelter in place. Most people aren’t lucky enough to be in such a “community”, and as US pandemic assistance/stimulus compared to GDP lacks most other even somewhat developed nations (those making decisions here who hate debt and deficits only feel that way if the spending helps the bottom 90%) , most might not have the option of having someone else help them.
If wearing a mask saves one person, I can’t see how it is a big deal.
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Long_Voyager94
> Sovande
10/20/2020 at 15:59 |
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As I said, you are judging others and pointing blame with no proven data to support it . I’m sorry, but putting a mask on your face doesn’t somehow make one a better person, especially when they knowingly condemn and attack those who disagree.
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fintail
> DipodomysDeserti
10/20/2020 at 16:02 |
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Interesting course of study , but I find it an odd link to complaining about masks. Just wear the damn thing when you’re around anyone. And if you’re that close, get those damn credentials :)
Regarding the overall health system, as they say, there’s more money in the treatment than the cure.
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DipodomysDeserti
> fintail
10/20/2020 at 17:41 |
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I never complained about wearing masks. I wear them all day for eight hours straight (while talking the entire time) and don’t have an issue with it. They seem to work, even if we don’t have a fully understood mechanism explaining how they’re working.
I do think they give people, especially people with a limited understanding of viruses, an inflated sense of security, leading to them ignoring more effective safety measures (like physical distancing ). They are not the end all be all of transmission prevention. They’re more of a last resort, if you have to be in close quarters with people for extended periods of time (like I do) . Viral load seems to be playing a big role in how this thing affects people. However, if I was an at risk person I wouldn’t trust anything other than an N95 and extreme distancing. Indefinitely wouldn’t rely on others to keep me safe.
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fintail
> DipodomysDeserti
10/20/2020 at 18:48 |
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Maybe I misinterpreted you, if so, my bad.
I have no formal background in all of this, but it seems to be there is no 100% safeguard. It’s all about risk mitigation, not risk elimination. Some segments out there don’t seem to get it, claiming because ‘rona isn’t gone by now, everything should just wildly open up. Too many contrarians out there who have mouthed off and then been the subject of a pandemic-related obituary .
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Sovande
> Long_Voyager94
10/20/2020 at 18:52 |
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I’m not sorry. Putting a mask on in public when around other people most definitely makes me a better person than those individuals who shout about how it infringes on their civil liberties or that there is no science to back up the mask claim. The reason there are no studies about the effectiveness of masks to prevent the spread of Covid19 is that such a study would be unethical as people would become infected and die.
Apparently every highly trained scientist or medical professional worldwide who is saying that the way to slow the spread of this is by wearing a mask on your face are all wrong. Every single one of them is incorrect.
TheRealBicycleBuck
> hillrat
10/20/2020 at 19:37 |
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The number of people in our building who don’t wear masks in the public spaces is astounding. It makes me want to start kicking shins.
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Sovande
> facw
10/20/2020 at 19:58 |
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Thanks for this whole post.
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Long_Voyager94
> Sovande
10/21/2020 at 06:50 |
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Yet we’ve tested masks with other viruses time and time again and found them ineffective at stopping or slowing viruses. Strange that they might/maybe/could stop them now........
Yet we have numerous scientists and professionals now telling us they don’t work, they’re work and voices are being silenced over the media panic .
Why only believe the mainstream media science?
Better question, how does only listening and absorbing what the media is telling you and berating others for not blindly believing make you a better person?
You don’t know your mask is saving anything, for all you know, your mask may be helping spread it by trapping it in your mask. There’s science and theories on both sides, just because that science goes against what you want to believe doesn’t make it less valid. How will you feel in 2 years when it comes out that masks helped spread and kill people in this country? Will you rush out and apologize to everyone you talked down to?
Maybe just don’t worry about what others are doing and mind your own business, if your mask works as you claim, you shouldn’t be bothered by someone not wearing one.
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hillrat
> DipodomysDeserti
10/21/2020 at 07:38 |
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Least surprising story, perhaps, ever . https://jalopnik.com/study-finding-it-nearly-impossible-for-airline-passenge-1845427485
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Sovande
> Long_Voyager94
10/21/2020 at 07:53 |
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Which science would you have me believe if not the CDC, the WHO, the Mayo Clinic, the US Navy ?
I know that masks slow the expulsion of droplets from my mouth. I know that I won’t get the virus from re-breathing it inside a mask because that is a dumb assertion. I am not sure how masks would kill people, that sounds like the talk of the uneducated, as every scientist and doctor I have seen on TV or read about has stressed that wearing a mask is an effective way to stop the spread.
I have to worry about what others are doing. People refusing to properly wear masks are getting other people sick, and my 10 year old son is potentially one of those people. My girlfriend is potentially one of those people.
We are never going to agree on this. I am going to stop before I say something I regret. I’m moving on. I hope you and your family stay healthy and safe.
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DipodomysDeserti
> hillrat
10/21/2020 at 11:54 |
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